Mind & Matter
Whether food, drugs or ideas, what you consume influences who you become. Learn directly from the best scientists & thinkers alive today about how your mind-body reacts to what you feed it.
The weekly M&M podcast features conversations with the most interesting scientists, thinkers, and technology entrepreneurs alive today.
Not medical advice.
At M&M, we are interested in trying to figure out how things work, not affirming our existing beliefs. We prefer consulting primary rather than secondary sources and independent rather than institutional voices. If we encounter uncomfortable truths or the evidence suggests unfashionable ideas may be valid, so be it.
As the host, my aim is to help you better understand how the body & mind work by curating & synthesizing information in a way that yields science-based insights that you can choose to use or disregard in your own life. Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
I am motivated to connect the dots and distill general principles from what I learn, preferring to ask questions and play devil’s advocate to debating or incessantly pushing my own viewpoint.
My beliefs:
- Taking ownership of your health starts with taking ownership of your information diet.
- All knowledge is provisional and we must work hard to prevent ourselves from becoming attached to our favorite ideas & preferred conclusions.
- Wisdom comes from an iterative, trial-and-error process of learning and unlearning. Letting go of pre-conceived notions can be painful, but pain is information.
Sometimes modern discoveries teach us we must unlearn received wisdom. Other times, modern information overload & historical chauvinism cause us to forget ancient wisdom which stills applies. The framework for learning that I embody is inspired by three Ancient Greek maxims inscribed in the Temple of Apollo at Delphi:
- “Γνῶθι σεαυτόν” (Know thyself)
- “Μηδὲν ἄγαν” (Nothing in excess)
- “Ἐγγύα πάρα δ Ἄτα” (Certainty brings insanity)
Mind & Matter
Fructose, Microglia, Anxiety & Brain Development | Justin Perry | 249
Cellular clean up by immune cells and how early-life fructose exposure leads to neurodevelopmental problems.
Episode Summary: Dr. Justin Perry talks about the body's constant cellular turnover—about 3 million cells die per second in adults (double in children and women)—handled by phagocytes like macrophages that engulf and digest debris to prevent diseases like lupus. They explore phagocytosis steps, macrophage adaptations in tissues like the brain (microglia), and how high fructose intake impairs microglial function in developing mice, leading to uncleared brain cells and anxiety-like behaviors, with implications for human neurodevelopmental disorders amid rising fructose consumption.
About the guest: Justin Perry, PhD is an immunologist and clinical psychologist who leads a lab at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center focusing on how the body clears dead cells and debris to maintain homeostasis.
Discussion Points:
- The body turns over 1-2% of its 30 trillion cells daily, mostly blood cells, but neurons in kids and endometrium in women turnover at ~2x this rate
- Phagocytosis involves "find me," "eat me," and digestion signals; failures can cause autoimmunity.
- Microglia are brain macrophages that uptake fructose via GLUT5 transporter.
- Early high fructose exposure (comparable to one soda daily) impairs the pruning of synapses and dead neurons.
- In mice, prenatal or postnatal fructose causes phagocytosis deficits in the prefrontal cortex, leading to heightened fear responses and poor fear extinction, mimicking anxiety disorders.
- Fructose correlates with rising neurodevelopmental issues like autism and anxiety; it's passed via breast milk, and liquid forms (e.g., sodas) overwhelm metabolic shields more than solid fruits.
- Macrophages may hold keys to diseases from atherosclerosis to cancer; deleting GLUT5 in microglia reverses fructose's effects, hinting at evolutionary roles in aging or low-oxygen states.
Related content:
- M&M 215: Cancer Metabolism: Sugar, Fructose, Lipids & Fasting | Gary Patti
- Article | Dietary Fructose & Metabolic Health: An Evolutionary Perspective
Reference Paper:
- Study | Early life high fructose impairs microglial phagocytosis and neurodevelopment
*Not medical advice.
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